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It’s Time to Have that Talk Again…

First, you need to read this article, “It’s Never Too Late to Be a Virgin” (NY Times, get a free subscription) to appreciate the full scope of what I’m about to say. But my rant will probably clue you in if you don’t read it, so let me begin…

:: Sex makes babies. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. If you’re not married, don’t know the guy or girl well enough to say that you even love them, then you probably shouldn’t be having sex. I know, I know … it’s fun and all that, but do you want to have a kiddo with the person? Ok. Then don’t have sex. (And if you have sex and get pregnant, please respect life enough to not throw your baby in the trash. Please.)
:: If you ignore what I just said and have sex, suddenly abstaining from it 3 months before your wedding day does NOT make you a virgin again. No. It might make you a bit horny, but you’re not a virgin. Definitely not if you are living with the guy. When I read Ms. Ratliff’s comment of how she is doing it to “help clear her conscience about having strayed from the expectations that her church and family hold about premarital sex” I considered hunting her down so I could bitch-slap her in person.
:: Add to that her direct quote, “The closer you get to the wedding, and you’re looking for a preacher and a church, you start to feel guilty,” she said of no longer being a virgin.” NO SHIT. This is why they beat it in to our heads from an early age that you should WAIT until you are married.
:: Take your “second virginity” crap and smoke it. It’s not happening. You’re living with the guy. You’re sleeping with him, although I am reassured and I think you are so much more pure because you won’t sleep naked now or take showers with him. What a joke.
:: Then there is Ms. Burgess who says, “The holding out makes you feel like you’ve been a good girl.” Oh, so in other words it makes it easier for you to justify all the years of naughty behavior? Yeah, ok. Whatever. See above comment on load of crap.
:: “The horse is already out of the gate. You’re either a virgin, or you’re not.” Yeah! Exactly! That was what I was trying to say!

I could go on and on and on about this article, but I’ll spare you. I am not trying to be a hypocrite here. I will not lie – I was not a virgin when I got married. I had moments when I regretted that too – not so much then as now. And if you want to live with someone, have sex, whatever – that’s YOUR call. Whatever, your choices that you have to live with. But please don’t feed me this fluffy bullshit about how if you abstain for 3 months then you’ve had a second virginity. Please. I’m too old to be buying in to that crap. (Have I used the word crap enough in this post yet?) So, what do you think? Can you ever be a virgin… again? [via Donna]

By Christine

Christine is an Avenger of Sexiness. Her Superpower is helping Hot Mamas grow their Confidence by rediscovering their Beauty. She lives in the Heights in Houston, Texas, works as a boudoir photographer, and writes about running a Business of Awesome. In her spare time, she loves to knit, especially when she travels. She & her husband Mike have a food blog at Spoon & Knife.

34 replies on “It’s Time to Have that Talk Again…”

I completely agree. I understand the idea behind the born again virgin movement (totally outside the freak show this wanna wear white girl’s talking about) but I’ve never understood why they have to call it virginity. There’s already a word for it, chastity, and really, my grandmother hasn’t had sex since my Papa died and if she ain’t calling herself a virgin none of those college coeds should be.

But this wanna wear white stuff is ridiculous. It goes into this whole hypocritical bullshit women trap themselves in… living together is great and modern and freeing, until they get proposed to by the right guy and then just because they get married they are so much better than the rest of us. Total low self-esteem crap.

I’m doing the living together thing because I want to, not because he doesn’t want to marry me. If we ever decide TO do the marriage thing, I’m not going to insult all these wonderful years together by feeling guilty about them and setting up these arbitrary “sex free” zones in our lives.

Of course, I mean, if I was this Ms. Burgess I’d say screw the scarlet A, make the whole dress scarlet red velvet to match. I’m proud of my five years of living in sin. (BTW, isn’t that a Bon Jovi song?)

But I love the long comments! I could have ranted on for at least 3-4 more paragraphs myself. I agree with what you said 100%. Chastity. It’s not virginity, so stop trying to call it that!

I wore white to my wedding, and I didn’t feel a bit of guilt about it. If I was to get married again I would probably wear white that time too. I picked it because it’s a flattering color on me – screw the old fashion ideas of only worn by the “innocent and pure…”

Oh PULEASE… born-again virgin? Ha. I could go off about this one for a while. I *totally* agree with you and with Cis!
I wore white at my wedding – because I *wanted* to, not cuz I thought I was pure! I had been living with E for a year before we got married (and 8 months of that was while we were engaged). Hmmm, how do I say this… we saved the actual act for the honeymoon, but I definately wasn’t pure and innocent when I got married. I don’t think that I should call myself a virgin by that point!!!
So yeah, I may have been a “bad girl” for a few months, but hey, I was and am still in love. I wouldn’t have done it any different, nor would i have set up a month before the wedding where he couldn’t touch me. Durh. It wouldn’t have changed a thing, ‘cept we would have both been cranky and stuff!!! 🙂

Exactly! Mike was my first and will hopefully be my last, whether we get the rings and official paper or not, but that doesn’t make our relationship any more or less special than if I’d had 20 guys before him. Besides, there are far too many teenagers already confused about what it means to be a virgin (thanks Clinton, ole buddy!) that this “second virginity” semantics can’t be good for. It astounds me the number of girls like Britney Spears who swear on the bible they’re virgins because being a virgin is so important to a woman’s worth (Are we living in Afghanistan? Are we wearing Burkhas? What’s with these people?) and yet they have oral sex with pratically anybody. Sex is sex is sex. Even in my Catholic education sex was never condemned as bad. In fact the idea of chastity is that sex is so good we shouldn’t waste it.

if three months of chastity is all it takes to “regain” one’s virginity, then I’ve “regained” mine three times over. So I guess it only counts if one is forced to withstand significant temptation during the chaste months. What a crock.

“Sex makes babies.” Well not in our case… You don’t know how badly we wish we could get all that money we spent on pointless condoms now!

But seriously, guilt doesn’t get you your virginity back. What a joke!

Isn’t mankinds everlasting hope that they can recall the thing they wish they never did ,instead of accepting responsibility for what they’ve done?
I would hope that making a commitment to a mate , would take priority over when you actually mated.
The one thing people can control ,is their future actions,fumbling with history,or attempting to change it, is just plain lying. When you lie to yourself(and start to believe it), you have lost .

Well I believe sex should wait till marriage. Ok so that’s out there. now for my rant…

My favorite illustration is taking two pieces of paper and glue them together with some elmer’s glue. Just wait a few seconds and then try to pull the paper apart. You will notice that the paper will not pull apart perfectly. Some parts will rip off and stay with the other piece. In the same way,0 you give up something special during sex. You just make it less meaningful as you share it with more people.

I want to be able to tell my wife(if i find her) that i saved myself for her even before I knew her. Not to get acknowledgment but to share something with her that no one else can have.

Well for the article, she is not a virgin but rather, abstaining for the current time.

thank you for your time.

Virginity is a completely different thing for a guy and a girl. Women are expected to stay virgins, to be “whole” before marriage. If men do it then it’s appreciated what a wonderful sacrifice they’ve made.

Not that there is anything wrong with being a virgin, it’s just discussing it in these sort of “quality control” type ways cheapens it.

I think Ron said it best, “virginity” is only a statement about whether you’ve mated or not. It doesn’t say anything qualitative about the relationship you are involved in.

No Kat, we don’t get to wear the virgin title. We just have to admit that we are possibly friskier then someone else. You know, someone who it hasn’t been a really long time for. 😉 (Note that I did mean WE … not just you. *giggle*)

*high fives*. Thank you girlfriend!!!!! And if you go for a road trip to bitch slap her in person, I wanna come too. I want to take pictures and then maybe give her a few slaps myself!!! Is it me or has the percentage of stupid people gone up by like…….oh……40% in the last year??

Wow, this makes me feel a lot about humanity – so many people that are actually vehemently supportive of maintaining virginity until marriage! This past year at my college, I was appalled by the number of columns/comments about promiscuous sex at our school so I wrote a column about the importance of waiting for the right person. Some people were so pissed off by my viewpoint that they sent hate mail to the school paper for me… but to be honest, I just feel bad for those people who throw all of that special intimacy away for a few minutes of pleasure.

I note how the previous commentor doesn’t have the conviction to put a name to his comments.

As for me, I’m of the opinion that so long as two people have made a commitment to one another, it shouldn’t really matter what the nature of the commitment is, ie. marriage, living together, whatever. To each their own, I say, and I’m not going to look down on a couple for having sex just because they’ve not got a piece of paper saying they’re committed to one another.

I can’t stand people who bitch about getting pregnant. Well dumbass, if you hadn’t had sex with whatever random person then it’s you’re own damn fault. It’s a little to late to bitch about it now. Of course this is excluding extenuating circumstances.

I agree with Tina.. I won’t look down on people because of their decision one way or another. and I don’t think you have to have a piece of paper and a wedding ring to mean you have a serious and committed relationship, worthy of sharing the ultimate level of intimacy.

I always have the most complicated opinions on these things it makes me look like I’m a big ole waffler, but I’m not, I swear.

I think STE is right that it is a good thing, the right thing, to wait until you are in a long term relationship to have sex. But I also think staying a virgin needs to be a choice, something you do for yourself. It shouldn’t be because you think you’re automatically a naughty girl or a slut if you’re not a virgin and it shouldn’t be just because you can’t get any.

But even if you are the good kind of virgin (the really mean it, really believe in it kind, the Kristine with a K kind) and not just the I’ve got my hymen so I’m better than you kind, being a virgin will not make your marriage or your relationship any better or more special than if you weren’t a virgin.

The kind of “purity” that really makes a new relationship special is of heart, not body. A pure, honest, loving spirit is much more important to a strong and abiding love than whether you already know which sex position is your favorite.

I wasn’t a virgin when I got married and I’m glad of that. And I believe it’s important to know if you’re compatible in bed. Just like I think it’s important to live with the other person before you get married because there will most definately be things you didn’t know about that person that might have driven you nuts. And I can’t say the first time was all that special and most people I’ve talk to would have to agree with me.

And all that crap about being a born again virgin, please. Once you’ve done it, you’ve lost it.

in no way am i affliated with the said Ms. Ratliff. ugh, to have the same last name as her (which is just so surprising as i don’t know any Ratliffs other than my husband and his family)!!! i haven’t read through all the comments because the girl’s name just caught my eye.

Ms. Ratliff’s idea of abstaining is just another way of realizing her guilt in having sex before marriage. if she is doing this because of what her family and church expect of her, then it’s because she feels guilty. and if you feel guilty, you confess. that’s how you cleanse yourself.

Definitely. It’s one thing to feel guilty and want to do something about it. It’s another to make a big deal about it just to get a pat on the back. She could have abstained without even her fiance knowing why, for that short of a time period. She just wanted the attention.

While you’re bitch-slapping her, I’ll be throwing up. Why would you spend the three months/eight weeks/6 months/whatever the magic number is for you pretending to be something you’re not. That’s not really the best way to start a marriage. And, to me, Ms. Ratliff sounds like she’s much more interesting in looking good in her wedding dress than she is in concentrating on building a solid relationship. Gag!

Has anyone else ever noticed that people who say they are going to save it for marriage always get married when they are like, 22 or 23? How many times have all of the people who have had sex realised that the only reason they were into someone was down to lust and not love? Just because you’ve got a ring on your finger doesnt mean that lust suddenly becomes something holy and pure. Sex is important in a relationship but not the most important thing, and by demanding that people abstain it makes it seem like the most important thing. It’s not that big a deal!!

Also, why can’t the first time with everyone be special?

For reference I have read the books on the Born Again Virgin movement, I agree that the title is a total misnomer but the content is actually more about sorting yourself out than saving yourself for a particular person or time.

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