Whatever happened to separation of church and state? I’m sure I read about that somewhere in our Constitution the Bill of Rights, didn’t I? I start to wonder when I see that the House of Representatives have introduced a resolution “Recognizing the public need for fasting and prayer in order to secure the blessings and protection of Providence for the people of the United States and our Armed Forces…” (H. Res. 153) [via Atrios]
Yes, this is for real. No, it is not a joke. And it didn’t come from The Onion.
Now I have the “We the People” song from Schoolhouse Rock stuck in my head… “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.” Come on, you know you want to sing along…
16 replies on “Whatever Happened To…”
it is quite ridiculous isn’t it? our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves right now screaming.
wtf is this? who says i even pray? (i do, but this is completely beside the point, as you know.)
uh, not that i won’t take a day off, if they decide to give it to me, though.
Actually, Seperation of Church and State are not in the original constitution. Seperation between church and state was taken from a letter written by Franklin (I think).
Personally, if people want to take time out to pray, that’s fine, but if you’re going to bring a resolution before the Nation, you’d better make sure it covers ALL religions, like a resolution to take time out to send good mojo all over the world.
This resolution? I think it’s crap.
The country was founded on religious principles. Blessings: who gives blessings? Politicians? Luck? Trees? C’mon: think back to your college history days, people, and think about the 1600’s-1780’s. People believed that America was BLESSED and that because God favored AMERICA, it had great prosperity. I’m not making this up: I just took a test on it a few weeks ago. It’s not rocket science: it’s history. Also, whenenver we had calamities in early American history, the people of the time believed it was because God was turning His back on them. These are not my beliefs, but they were theirs. This country’s FOUNDING is rooted in religion. Don’t forget that.
Oh, I’ve never forgotten that – I’ve said it many times myself. However, it was also founded by people who had left their homelands to come to a land where they would not be oppressed for their religious beliefs. That is why it came up in the Bill of Rights that the government should not determine our beliefs for us.
Our nation is historically a Christian nation, however not everyone here is Christian, and I don’t think we should mandate religion in any format.
freedom of religion…not from religion…but I don’t want to say that…
the romans did it too…ask thucydides (by it I mean felt their good or bad times were the will of the gods…rather than recognizing that they had control over them…)
what does that have to do with mandating a national day of fasting and prayer? Who would even come up with that sort of thing?
And why on earth are politicians trying to make us better people? “Whereas, through prayer, fasting, and self-reflection, we may better recognize our own faults and shortcomings and submit to the wisdom and love of God in order that we may have guidance and strength in those daily actions and decisions we must take;”
sorry, I was just inspired and somewhat amused by this thing enough to comment:)
If I sounded mean there, it wasn’t intentional, nor was it even felt.
Personally, it seems like a waste of government resources. I want my damn money back. Those guys should have their pay docked for one day.
We don’t need a resolution acknowleging prayer and fasting. That is like needing a lawyer present as you wipe your butt. Geez.
amazing… simply amazing. so now i have to believe in God to be patriotic? sheesh.
C – you didn’t sound mean at all. At least I didn’t take it that way, and that’s what matters, right?
Syd – I want my money back too – let me know where I can go to get it. I owe $700 in taxes this year; can I refuse to pay because I think they are being idiots?
Mikey – God & patriotism go hand in hand … didn’t you know that? *cough*
If it gives us all a day off, and they don’t mind that my “God” is a WOMAN, then it wouldn’t bother me. :o)
But I agree: who are THEY to tell ANYONE when to pray. Maybe I’ve been “fasting and praying” since the damn war broke out! Who are THEY to “make us better people” by forcing us on our knees? – That is just wrong.
And yes, our nation was founded by leaders with VERY religious principles, but times have changed. As long as the religious freedom we have considers ALL religions equal (just as all MEN and WOMEN should be considered equal), then they can mention religion all they want. – But I’m cynical enough to fear that they would make it a “Christian” day of prayer and fasting, and that would be VERY un-American, and flat out WRONG.
maybe this is part of a bigger scheme…turning this into a religious war?
Oh, I agree that it should not be a Christian thing… if it is to be a religious day of “whatever” at all, it HAS to be non-denominational, and voluntary at best. I practice my own brand of religion known only to me (ha!), but the fact remains that religion shouldn’t be excluded only because we don’t all share the same religion, especially during times when ANY help from a “higher source” would be welcome.
Oh, Christine: you were a dependant and never in a firefight: I personally have NEVER seen an atheist on the battlefield. I’ve seen people pray to ANYTHING that wants to listen during some pretty scary moments. Faith, some may claim, is the crutch of the weak, but it’s also an aid for the brave.
Semper Fi!
First off, anyone who believes that the U.S. truly is an institution where Church and State are separate is severely deluded… It’s bad enough that I couldn’t buy a bottle of wine last Sunday when some friends stopped by, but now the House thinks that the President needs to tell us all to pray and fast for victory (but this ISN’T a crusade).
This an excerpt from House Resolution 153, on the floor today:
“Whereas all of the various faiths of the people of the United States have recognized, in our religious traditions, the need for fasting and humble supplication before Providence… the President should issue a proclamation–
(1) designating a day for humility, prayer, and fasting for all people of the United States; and
(2) calling on all people of the United States–
(A) to observe the day as a time of prayer and fasting;
(B) to seek guidance from God to achieve a greater understanding of our own failings and to learn how we can do better in our everyday activities; and
(C) to gain resolve in meeting the challenges that confront our Nation. ”
As a citizen of a nation that claims separation of church and state, I am embarrassed and frustrated by the hypocrisy my country displays to the rest of the world. While I am a spiritual person, my spirituality (like many others), is a very personal thing. Even if I shared the same concept of God as our illustrious representatives, I’m pretty sure I’d be pretty offended to have the government tell me when to pray and fast. And finally, why the hell would that God want to hear the prayers of a sheepish population, and evoked by a government that so flagrantly defies God’s laws in the worst possible ways.
How did the republican party so successfully co-opt the Christian faith? I don’t claim to have a theology doctorate on Christianity, but I do remember a few things from Catholic school. Namely that Jesus hung out mostly with the poor, and the sick. To put that into context, if Jesus were alive right now, you’d find him in downtown Cleveland, chatting it up in Public Square with the homeless, prostitutes, drug addicts and anyone else who will listen. All the while, most of the business elite who pass by Jesus will rush back to work, anxious to tell the rest of the office about the smelly hippie talking to all the street trash.
Not that the dem’s are any more worthy enough to get J’s endorsement either. But that’s my whole point. I don’t believe in the separation of Church and State because I fear or hate religion, but the exact opposite: because I cherish my beliefs and hate to see them being used and abused by those in power.
God just has no place in government, government has no right to speak for God and no place telling me what God wants or how to practice my beliefs.
Yes, this is from the same group of charming congresscritters who renamed Belgian fried potatoes “Freedom Fries.” It’s maddening to know that my tax dollars pay for these sanctimonious idiots. Though given the state of our nation today (and state of our nation’s leaders), I’d suggest that — if there ever was a time for prayer — now is it.
It wasn’t Franklin who mentioned the “separation of church and state” Initually it is found in the “Manifesto of Karl Marx” Remember him? READ AND BE THE WISER>>DIG INTO THE PAST REAL DEEP! One last comment before you can real some documented facts. To the person who mentioned “Times have changed” is devoid to the fact that it is the people that have changed and has been the case all thoughout the Bible alone. Also remenmber this: All the great Nations and Empires that ever existed fell and not from their enemies from without…they fell from within and now the United States is the last of Great Nations and is running a dangerous parallel with the Rise and fall of the Roman Empire.
History repeats itself if the lessons that were taught aren’t learned!
READ ON AND PLEASE READ IT ALL!
Hopefully this will answer some questions and provide some individuals some real education so they know what they are talking about instead of guessing I provide the following: